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[lashmar]

I said the other day that I was going to make a list of things I'm going to bring up at the next UKIP meeting and this is the start of it. Even though UKIP is a political party and not a NWO discussion group it's all interlinked in many ways and I hope to bring important political matters up and try to get people to see that the System is just bollocks. Even people who don't know/believe the NWO knows the system is broken and I think it's a great opportunity for me to play on that.


Hopefully in a few weeks time we'll be getting a 2 acre plot of land which well be able to keep livestock on and grow our own vegetables. Just read this and you'll see the sort of regulation we'll have to follow and I'll get to my point in a second:

If you are going to keep livestock - sheep, goats, pigs, cattle- or claim any rural payments, you need to register your property as an agricultural holding. If the land you have bought is agricultural, it may already have a holding number - the vendor will be able to tell you - but if it is a subdivision of an existing holding, then you will need a new one. In Scotland, you do this via the Rural Payments and Inspection Department (RPID). The kind people there will give you a County / Parish / Holding (CPH) Number. This is used on all correspondence and forms that you will need to complete.

Animal Health, the executive agency of Defra formed from the State Veterinary Service and a number of other related inspections agencies in 2007, will give you a flock number. If you are keeping pigs, you will also get a herd number.

These numbers will be used to identify you in all correspondence with Government bodies and will feature on all the records that you are required to make.

You will need a Holding Register, a Flock Record and a pad of Sheep and Goat Movement forms, which you get from the Scottish Animal Movement Unit (SAMU).

The Flock Record is a continuous movement and flock record that sheep keepers are required to maintain. All events - births, purchases, sales, deaths - have to be entered on an annual record.

The Holding Register is a similar document that records all sheep movements on and off a holding. It is required for disease control purposes and has to be submitted annually to the Scottish Government.

A Sheep and Goat Movement form has to be completed every time animals move on to or off your holding.

With three sheep, it's not too complicated but it must be a lot of work on a big holding.

That is the regulation you MUST go though if you want to keep animals for your family. Somehow people have let it get to the stage that even if you want to pull out of the system you still have to inform the government about you're every move...if that sort of regulation is only for people who wish to keep animals for themselves can you Imagen how much it will be if you want to sell it to the public?  that must be horrendous!!!

The way it stands at the moment it is impossible to fully withdraw from the system. You have to fill out forms for the movement of animals, for the sale of them, for the slaughter of them...for fuck sake you have to fill them out if one of them dies of old age...there is no getting away from it.

Now to my point. The NWO/governments have crushed people into submission. Most people would love to have a small holding and get away from the "system" but they wont because they can't be bothered with the amount of paper work they'll need to fill out. That is only a small sample of paperwork we'll need to fill out and the meat is only for us, its not as if we're selling any of it.

Paperwork/red-tape/bureaucracy is the main threat to people. They've rammed the system full of it and you have to follow it other wise you end up in jail. It's basically battered us into sumission, which is something the NWO likes to do if you think about it.   

Can anyone think of useless paperwork that is completely unnecessary?

http://www.accidentalsmallholder.net/articles/sheep/gettingstarted/

[Day_Tripper]

All paperwork that governments insist on are "completely unnecessary".

I found a site to Defra about tagging UK animals: http://www.defra.gov.uk/foodfarm/farmanimal/movements/cattle/tagging.htm

Your regulation is completely crazy!  I'm sure there is a monetary price to be paid for these tags and the paperwork as well.  Would you guys PLEASE stop your bloody government already!?!  It is only a matter of time before this comes over the pond.

Here is an article about NAIS from 2006: http://www.organicconsumers.org/ofgu/ID060202.cfm

I think, but could be wrong, that for the moment NAIS has been temporarily stopped.  However, we have a food bill going through congress right now that would force home gardeners to allow the feds to inspect their gardens and enforce certain "standards".  This is all because the corporations are finding poisons from China in their foods.  So, we stop buying from the corporations and now they write the legislation to penalize the little guy.

A guy I know has parents who still farm.  They have cows and such.  They received a letter from the feds asking how many animals they had.  As any good American would, they lied on the form.  Hell, if that had been me, I wouldn't have even answered them.  I don't even tag my cats.  I don't believe in asking permission from the government to have a cat or to pay a tax on my cats lives.  And that is on a local level.  Now, the feds want to know who owns what animals and plants.  Maybe it is so that when the un military comes here they know who they can raid.

[lashmar]

All paperwork that governments insist on are "completely unnecessary".

I found a site to Defra about tagging UK animals: http://www.defra.gov.uk/foodfarm/farmanimal/movements/cattle/tagging.htm

Your regulation is completely crazy!  I'm sure there is a monetary price to be paid for these tags and the paperwork as well.  Would you guys PLEASE stop your bloody government already!?!  It is only a matter of time before this comes over the pond.

I don't think "all" paperwork is unnecessary but I think a huge amount of it is. Clearly industrial chemicals (the crap they spray on fields) should have regulation; the crap they pump into non-organic animal feeds should have paperwork as well but I think organic products should have no paperwork at all if its just for yourself and your family.

Its slightly more complicated when it involves selling meet though. I think the tags are a good idea and I think it should be left at that, I see no need for any more paperwork other than the tags if you're selling to the public. The tags are their simply to trace where it came from once it's in the Slaughterhouse so if theres something wrong with the animal (foot and mouth, blue tongue or something like that) then it can be traced back to the farm and everything can be checked out there.

Other than that I don't understand why you need all this crap. Farmers have to log when they fed the animals, what bag of feed they used, how much they used, if the feed is used to feed anyother animals...ect, ect, ect. The regulation is a joke and it#s getting worse. 

[Day_Tripper]

We can agree to disagree about government paperwork.  The more I learn, the more I'm an anarchist and believe that all government is evil by design.

Have you heard monsanto sold gmo alfalfa illegally here in the States? http://www.planetark.com/dailynewsstory.cfm/newsid/35154/story.htm

On a better note, I started a garden at my boyfriend's place.  I'm doing square foot gardening and have 3 4X4 boxes which should grow enough for both of us us.  The big concern I have is how to keep the deer out.  He already has a dog that barks at critters.  I've been peeing around the garden (I garden with beer ).  I only bought two starts, pepper and tomato, the rest are fledgling seeds.  So, there isn't a lot yet to attract the deer yet.  I share the beer with the slugs and saw a slug drinking the beer this morning.  I also have a couple of mints and a lavender plant trying to cut off the deer trail from the garden.  The problem is, there is a natural spring just down the trail.  All the critters drink from it, the carnivores the herbivores and the omnivores.  I don't worry about the carnivores getting into the garden, but I do worry about the deer and the bear.  While I was planting seeds I heard a big sounding critter drinking from the spring.  I couldn't see what it was and didn't have a gun on me.  When the dog sniffed in that direction and trotted off in the opposite direction, I decided to follow, just in case it was a carnivore and not just a deer.

Sorry Lashy, off topic again. 

[lashmar]

We can agree to disagree about government paperwork.  The more I learn, the more I'm an anarchist and believe that all government is evil by design.

Fine by me. Its not really a case of "disagreeing" just seeing the same thing from a different place.

On a better note, I started a garden at my boyfriend's place.  I'm doing square foot gardening and have 3 4X4 boxes which should grow enough for both of us us.

Oddly enough we might be getting two acres of land in the next few weeks, it depends on how much the guy wants for it when he gets back from holiday. lol. In the garden we have at the moment we have 60, yes sixty lol, tomato plants and 10 or 15 potatoes. lol. If we can get the little bit of land I'll keep everyone updated...we could all do it, you, me and Regnad all have veggie patches now so we should start a thread about it.

Mike - Could you split this thread from DT's post above down to make a Gardening tread please:

Click me please Mike lol

Thank you.

The big concern I have is how to keep the deer out.

Shoot 'em. lol.

[Day_Tripper]

The big concern I have is how to keep the deer out.

Shoot 'em. lol.

 

On our way into town this morning I saw a deer on the side of the road.  I said out loud "deer!".  My boyfriend looked at me and said, "do you want to shoot it before it gets to the garden?".  The answer was obviously no.   I just wanted him to know that it was there so we didn't hit it if it jumped into the street.

We probably would if we didn't think his neighbors would nark him off.  Unfortunately, even on "private property" it is illegal to fish or hunt without a license and at the wrong time of the year.  Then again, so long as there are taxes, no individual is allowed to own property.  One can only (with the exception of Texas) lease property from the government.  The banksters just place themselves as the middlemen.

My boyfriend told me a story from a book he had read by an ex-game warden or something like that.  Anyway, the guy worked in Montana.  There was an old guy who had lived off the land his whole life.  He would come to town maybe once a year to get some supplies.  He was maybe 90 years old.  Well, he hadn't come to town for about 3 years and the locals were worried about him.  So, he and this other guy went up to the old man's property.  What they had found was the old man, who looked near death from starvation, dressing a deer.  The problem was...it wasn't "deer season".  So, the author of this story said he wanted to just leave and not do anything to the man.  But, the other guy he was working with wanted to prosecute the old man. So, the other "official" threatened to call a supervisor, and the author backed down for fear of losing his job.  They ended up arresting the old guy for "poaching".  That first night in jail, he died.